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You had your best-laid plans and then COVID-19 came along and hammered the entire economy. But you’ve got this – if you have the right information. Join Rob Carrick and Roma Luciw on Stress Test, a podcast guiding you through one of the biggest challenges your finances will ever face.

ROMA: Kids, they’re cute. At least at first. Seriously, though, when you’re considering the question of starting a family, have you thought about what it costs to have kids? That’s what we’re talking about today.

Welcome to Stress Test, a Globe and Mail podcast where we look at how the rules of personal finance have changed in the pandemic for Gen Z, and millennials. I’m Roma Luciw, personal finance editor at the Globe and Mail.

ROB: And I’m Rob Carrick, personal finance columnist at The Globe.

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ROMA: Today we're talking about kids. So I'm bringing one of my kids on to the mic.

Luca is 10 years old.

So Luca, do you think kids are expensive?

LUCA: Yes. I do think that they're expensive. Kids -- they need a lot of care. They need clothes. They need food, they need water.

ROMA:What do you think is the most expensive thing about kids? Out of, more expensive than anything?

LUCA: Probably food.

ROMA: Yeah?

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LUCA: That's what I think.

ROMA: That's because you love to eat.

LUCA: That might be the reason why.

ROMA: And I think when you get to be a teenage boy, it's gonna be even more expensive, right?

LUCA:That's what everyone says so, I guess that's my belief now.

ROMA: Yeah. So Luca, how much money do you think it costs to have a kid? Like, give me an actual number?

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LUCA:

I think, at least over $10,000.

ROMA: Mm hmm.

LUCA: So if you say, two kids, then it would cost about $20,000.

ROB: $10,000 a kid, that's a pretty good estimate, I think. Yeah. I mean, I think you could spend $10,000 in a few months in Toronto daycare if you had a couple of kids. But on the other hand, I like the idea of sort of trying to get down to an actual number that will get people thinking, hey, what will this cost?

ROMA: I think he's not far. I mean, we didn't clarify whether we mean $10,000 a year or $10,000 over the course of a lifetime, but still, it's a pretty good guess for a 10-year-old.

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When we had our first son, we knew we'd be down to one income. We tried to prepare for that. One thing I realized is that our income would never go back to where it was before, because we would be paying for all these extra things. 10 years later, that hasn't changed. Rob, what's been your experience?

ROB: Well, we had our boys we moved, we change cities. My wife Teresa left her career. So we had a lot of flux going on in our family. And so I don't think the cost of daycare was such a jarring thing to us because we were adjusting to so much at the same time. And then, after the boys got out of the daycare years, what really struck me was how we were still spending a lot of money otherwise on activities because your kids get older, they get involved in more things, and it's related to school and it's related to family and it's related to extracurricular. It kept on, right up till university and I gotta tell you, I'm, even as your kids go into university and come out there are still aspects of parents supporting their kids or one way or another so, the ride doesn't stop.

ROMA: Of course, we know that the pandemic has left many people out of work and then households across the country there are people that are earning less. It's important to talk to your kids about that too, to reassure them that this isn't going to be the situation forever. And to understand that life can be good. And I think that it's important to talk about these things in front of them. This opens up a really nice time for us to be able to sit down and have these conversations. So they're open to talking about money, and they understand there's nothing shameful about that.

ROB: Yeah, there's some great life lessons to be taught. Sometimes, circumstances change, and you have to adjust the family's finances to that. Kids pick that up, they'll be on board, and they'll learn some resiliency that could take them all the way through the rest of their lives.

ROMA: In every episode of Stress Test, we talk to real people and experts to see how the basic rules of personal finance have been stress tested by COVID-19. Today, we're talking about the cost of having kids. That's up next.

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ROB: To get a sense of what it costs to have kids and how life doesn't always go according to plan, we connected with Amy in Hamilton, Ontario. She's 33 and she definitely knows the costs associated with raising a family.

AMY: I have four girls. They are all two years apart. My youngest are twins. It's a very busy, loud house. With five ladies in the house, I would not expect it to be any different.

ROB: Right now, Amy is in school and working in a part time job remotely at home. Needless to say, COVID put a wrench in their normal day to day plans.

AMY: I honestly don't know how people who are working full time out of the house are doing this right now. I cannot imagine. My oldest is taking the brunt of it though. She is supposed to turn 16 in a few weeks and all of the normal things that we should be planning for her are a no-go. So no sweet 16 birthday party, no writing her license. So it's a lot of like kind of managing her perspective right now, too.

ROB: It's got to be tough at any age. What are your kids into these days?

AMY: All of the things forever that are burning a hole in my wallet. They are extremely active. I've got the younger three in circus school normally throughout the school year. The older two it is swimming lessons, it is courses, they want to take, little courses at the art schools. The younger ones, it's all about the extracurriculars. The one is really into science. She wants to be an engineer one day so it's the Mad Science Club. And then it's a subscription services for all the stem stuff that she likes to do.

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ROB: Amy gets subscription boxes for her kids based on their interests like science and Harry Potter.

AMY: So I know in subscription services between the four of them, I'm sitting at just shy of $300 a month. The circus school for the year is just shy of 1500 for two of them.

ROB: So all together, what does it cost to run a household with four teenage girls?

AMY: $5800 a month. That’s bills, that’s rent, that’s groceries. I’d like to think I’m a pretty financially literate person, that I’m kind of aware of my own limitations. However, when it comes to like this money for savings, everybody is supposed to set aside, my savings is generally like, I’ll put it in my savings, but I already know that it’s going to be spent on clothes or on, you know, birthday gifts and all of the other kind of little incidentals that come along the way. A few years ago, tracked how much I was spending per year and all of those things. This coronavirus, so like when that happened, all bets were off.

ROB: When Amy began her career, she worked in youth mental health and corrections, but it was precarious work without steady hours, so she switched to hairstyling. It gave her the income she needed and the flexibility to raise four kids. Now Amy's back in school to pursue being a law clerk. She has a part time gig and other sources of income which help

AMY: My income right now. I receive like the Canada Child Tax Benefit for the children, and then they also receive a pension like they receive orphans benefits from their father. He actually passed away years ago. And he was not quite 24 when he passed away. So that was not something we were expecting. One night, he just didn't wake up. It's not something financially, you're preparing for. But I mean, at the end of the day, like as a parent, you're gonna find any way to be able to provide for your kids so that they never have to realize that, you know, we're two weeks from like, just being completely screwed at different times, right?

ROB: When Amy's partner passed away, her children were still very young. Usually this is when daycare takes a big bite out of your household income.

AMY: So in terms of daycare, I was lucky enough that my income was below a certain threshold that when I originally pursued post-secondary, I was able to qualify for subsidized daycare. I was only paying 50 cents a day. As I got older though, I ended up being really fortunate where I fell into a situation where a girlfriend of mine was wanting to save up for school. So what ended up happening is she came to live with me it was like, free room and board and then I was giving her money to be able to stay with the kids. So I kind of really lucked out with like a lower-income version of a live-in nanny, which was fantastic.

ROB:And after that situation ran out…

AMY: That's when I ended up leaving the job. I decide to do hair simply because it worked a little bit more on my schedule. And ultimately, like I knew I wanted to go back to school, but like the insane cost of daycare, I would have been losing money every single month. And that's kind of what ultimately led to me waiting until they were at this age.

ROB: Do Amy's kids have registered education savings plans or RESPs?

AMY: So they do. When their dad passed, he did have life insurance. And his father and his sister made the decision to use that to invest in the kids RESPs. So, thankfully, that was not a worry that I had to shoulder. I do not know what I would have done otherwise, like at this point, they'll have a good start. But at some point, my kids are gonna be taking on student loans while I am still paying mine off. And I honestly don't think I'm alone there. I think the cost of education at this point is so staggering. There's gonna be a lot of people in that situation.

ROB: Amy's making the best of a situation where not everything was ideal, but she knows exactly where she's at financially. Amy carries debt on a credit card.

AMY: As of the beginning of this month. I am currently sitting at a cumulative amount of $58,868 and 37 cents. So that is the two credit cards and student loan debt.

ROB: Going back to school made her debt load higher but she felt she needed to switch tracks to a higher paying job.

AMY: Kids are expensive. Kids are especially expensive when you are not prepared. Like I always joke that I'm like I'm winging it. Like I'm learning it as I went along because I had not even finished high school. When I started my family, I had no education, I had kind of the bare bottom job prospects to look into and you do the best you can with what you've got. And there's something to be said for being really prepared for children. That's obviously what I would like for my children is to have a good nest egg savings before they even think about having kids. However, surprises can be a good thing too. So either way, they're gonna burn your wallet, like right out of your pocket.

ROB: I am super impressed with how Amy is keeping it all together. It's not an ideal situation, but she is fighting the good fight and she's keeping her head above water. And I think she is a great example of how scrappy parents have to be to keep their finances together, when they're confronted with all these different expenses. Plus, not just the kids, but all the curveballs that life throws you.

ROMA: Me, too, I think, you know, a mom of four, I have nothing but respect for her. We haven't met her kids. But if they're as happy and well-adjusted as Amy is, I think they're going to have a great future. But it's really expensive to have kids. We can see that with Amy and her experiences. I see it with mine. Has it always been this way? How did we get here?

ROB: One thing that really strikes me is how much more expensive activities are for kids today than when our boys were young. That would take me back about 20 years ago. You know, we had kids who played hockey, summer camps, all kinds of activities. It all seemed manageable, but what I see parents up against today seems to have taken it up a couple of other notches. Roma, you have kids in that zone. What do you see?

ROMA: I'm seeing a lot of premium activities. I'm seeing that price tags for things that kids do have gone up and up and up. Let's look at hockey. For example, we had a Globe and Mail story that ran about four or five years ago, pegged the cost of having one kid in rep hockey for a year at minimum $10,000. Do that over a 10-year span, looking at $100,000, factor in a second or a third kid. Who can afford that?

ROB: But it's not just hockey, we one of my boys had a hockey coach, and we were talking to about a tournament we're going to it he mentioned that one of his other kids was in a competitive dancing tournament in another city, at the same time. It's like everything has sort of grown, the opportunities to find things for your kids to do has grown and the scope of these activities. It's not just let's have kids do competitive dance or hockey it's, Let's have tournaments out of town, in other countries. Everything costs more.

ROMA: And then we get into the kinds of things that help them with schooling. So tutoring, extra language lessons. All those kinds of things on top of that anything to give your kids an edge. And I don't say that in a judgmental way, I think parents are doing that, because they think they're doing the best thing for their kid. And maybe it is. I don't have the answer to that. All I know is it costs a lot of money.

ROB: I think there's an element of consumption and all this and it's something we touched on in our episode on debt, and our episode on housing, how we're spending more, we're striving more for a higher standard of living. And I think we're committing ourselves to spending more than we can afford a lot of times and I think we're doing that with our kids. But I think housing is an area that we have to really look at because that is a core expense when you want kids.

ROMA: Certainly housing is a major factor. When you start off buying a home, you're not necessarily looking at one that's going to fit one or two kids. But as soon as you have those kids, you might start thinking about what school would they go to do we have enough room for them? Do you want them to have a driveway or yard to play in? If you envision yourself putting your kid in a rep sport, can you afford to do that and also be able to put some money be away for other saving goals. That's the big crunch you're facing when you have kids, so many financial obligations and everything is really expensive.

ROB: Just like with anything else in personal finance, the cost of having kids is something you adjust for yourself with trade offs based on your values, and some expert advice. We've got that for you up next.

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ROMA: Our expert guest today is personal finance journalist Melissa Leong. She hosted a podcast called Money Moves, and she's a regular money contributor to The Social on CTV.

So you are deep in the Paw Patrol years, how old are your kids?

MELISSA: My son is upstairs watching Paw Patrol right now. I have a one year old and a five year old. It is chaotic, is a understatement. But I'm trying to make the best of his time because there's so little for such a short period of time.

ROMA: It's true. I feel like mine were to end for last week and then I look at them now and they borrow my shoes now. So when they can't find their own flip flops they throw mine on and they go run out and play and I think remember those days when these shoes were my own and now they are wearing my T shirts and putting on my hoodies.

MELISSA: Adorable.

ROMA: I think first and foremost when people think about when they first find out that they're going to have a kid you know, the big thing that goes on everyone's mind in terms of their finances is how they're going to live on one income for an extended period of time. How can parents to be get ready for that?

MELISSA: I think it can be hard for parents who are expecting to fathom, okay, well, how much is this going to cost? Because they have no point of reference, right? And so I think one of the things is to get a sense of what that might cost. So a little bit of clarity in that situation. You know, when I was expecting Jet, my firstborn, I just asked friends who had had children to send me their list of things they bought, as well as their budget. And then I cross-referenced that with my most frugal friends, because obviously if you look online, people will tell you to buy all sorts of stuff, you know, like toys that make whale noises and special rockers that are ergonomic and very expensive. So that was one of the very first things was just trying to get a sense of how much it's going to cost. And then the second thing is to prepare for as best I can. So if you have the opportunity to actually practice living on that one income, and then putting that other, the second income aside for the future. I know that's not always possible. But that's one of the best things that I did for myself was just practice living on that one income to see what that was like and going into HR and saying, I'm gonna go on mat leave, don't tell anyone, because I haven't announced it. But can you give me a sense of whether there's a top-up and how much I'm going to get from the government and get a sense of what I will be actually living on? To understand how I will survive?

ROMA: How do you really decide what you do and don't need for the baby because there's an entire industry out there convincing you and selling you on this notion that these are all things that you need, you need that baby swing that makes the noise that will rock your baby. The issue is that your baby fits into that for maybe a month, and then it's out of there, but that swing costs, you know $150. So how can you make those kinds of decisions when you have no reference for that yet you're a new parent?

MELISSA: So I think in the beginning you get all excited when you hear from your favorite mommy blogger that you should buy this thing because this will make your kids sleep and you're like, yes, anything that'll make my kid sleep. Sure, why not?

ROMA: Absolutely. And this stuff is so cute.

MELISSA: It is cute. You know, why am I buying bow ties for a baby? He has no neck! But it's cute, right? You just irrationally buy things. But I think we buy things that we don't end up needing. So I had a breast pump. I had bottles I had all of these things. Because I thought that I would bottle feed my kid. Both kids never took a bottle. So I was spending all this money on stuff that I it was aspirational. I hope this is going to work out I hope we you know, we have this beautiful crib. Guess what? Both kids didn't sleep in a crib, like we co-slept. I wish I just waited a little bit to see what my kid was like and what he would like and what kind of mom I would be because then what happened is that I ended up buying more because I thought well he's not going to sleep in a crib. So now I get by this other stuff, right? To make my bed more comfortable.

ROMA: Yeah, the rail so he doesn't fall out and all that stuff. The stroller nearly broke us. We couldn't decide on the stroller.

MELISSA: You know what? It's a big ticket item! It's expensive. I didn't care so much about it. But later on after I had bought a stroller, and I was talking with a friend of the park, who had a fancier, European, more expensive stroller, and she was saying that she felt really judged. You know, she felt that she needed to have a special stroller when she was going in the park. All the other moms had nice strollers and I thought what is happening? We're keeping up with the Joneses. The Joneses are driving strollers versus cars.

ROMA: So the fear of missing out is still there, that sort of you know, pressure to keep up is still very evident, even when you're buying baby stuff.

MELISSA: Yes, but I think the subtext is that we want what's best for our kid. So I think every time we make a personal finance decision, we are somehow justifying it in our brain. So when it comes to kids, the powerful thought that you have is I need this to make him happy. I need this because this is what's going to be best for this little human. It's not even about necessarily you anymore, but it's about I need to do this for this person who I infinitely love and that, technically, has no price tag. So you will spend, whether or not it is a good use of money or not. And so I really think sometimes when you're trying to figure out, Should I buy this stroller? Or should I buy this this or that? I think it just goes back to well, what is it that you truly value? What kind of relationship do you want with your kid? What kind of thing do you want to teach them? You know, for example, in my book, which is about happiness, you should also think about the bonding that you want with your kid. And that means spending more on experiences. So it might be better spent using it, you know, going on a yoga class with your baby versus spending that on a cute hat.

ROMA: Let's pivot a little bit to talk about daycare and childcare. Daycare costs are huge. In many cases, they're like a mini mortgage, you know, in cities like Toronto and Vancouver. For smaller kids, they can range from $1500 to $2000 a month, which turns into something like $20 000 a year. How can a family plan and pay for that?

MELISSA: So I was very aware of this tremendous huge cost. I ended up quitting my full-time job at the Financial Post because I wanted to spend more time with my son. And also I had worked out in my head, how much money it was going to cost to put him in childcare. And I figured that I could save that money, but also work a little bit and make something that was best suited for me. We're talking in very strange times, where we're all at home, and we're saving the cost of childcare. But we're not able to really work because we're taking care of our kids. But I think there's gonna be a lot more awareness about flexible schedules, given what is happening in the world. And there might be the opportunity for you and your partner to vary your hours in terms of working so that maybe you don't have to do all-day daycare, maybe you can do just mornings then you could do three days a week, and just trying to look for something that fits your family.

ROMA: One thing that I've seen is stories or discussions that crop up about young people deciding not to have kids because they don't think that financially they can swing it. Is that something that you're seeing more of?

MELISSA: I do have friends who've decided not to have two because they were comfortable with the life that they had. And they first saw that more children would mean that they would have to make sacrifices that they weren't willing to make. I mean, we all have to look at our own lives and decide what we want it to look like, right? I'm just happy that they had that foresight. I'm also happy that they had the willingness and the consciousness to do a little bit of planning.

ROMA: And there's no right answers.

MELISSA: I think there's a way to have more children. If you want to have more children, I think you can do that and not have an exact doubling of costs. Sometimes when I talk to people, they have an expectation of, well, I want this, I want this, I want this. And if I have more children means I can't have it. Yes, that's personal finance, that's essentially being an adult. It's about making choices. And so you may not be able to go on an annual vacation, if you have more children, but you can still have a beautiful, wonderful life. You just have to make different decisions and it's going to affect everything, but that's okay.

ROMA: I see a lot of kids in Kumon, a lot of kids in piano a lot of kids and dance or, you know, our mom, Amy has four kids, these daughters in circus school and you know, doing STEM classes. Those are big costs, and especially in big cities, they amount to quite a bit of money. So, this is to me where, you know, the extra-curricular activities are really a factor, also, you know, when you're setting up your household finances.

MELISSA: I think this goes back to figuring out what you value. If this is what you value, then make a trade off. You've done the numbers you've looked at how much money comes in and how much money you allocate towards savings like your Registered Education Savings Plan. Also your retirement because that's important because you don't want your kids looking after you when you are no longer working. And you've decided this is how much money I want to spend on the rest of my family without going into debt, then allocate that. I had a very different upbringing than some of my girlfriends. One of my best friends was in dance camp. Her family would have spent thousands upon thousands of dollars. sending her to dance. I went nowhere. My parents weren't in a position to put me in all sorts of things. I stayed in my room and read books. And I turned out awesome. I might be biased, but I think I turned out okay. And so the kids will be all right. If you are able to give them opportunities, then amazing. But if you're only able to give them a specific opportunity, I think it's to have a family meeting and sit down and talk about, well, what is it that we really want? Do you want to do music this season? Or do you want to do athletics this season? Well, let's prioritize what we want and what things can we make concessions for, if you want to do things, there are a lot of free programs as well. Can we mix it up?

ROMA: How has the pandemic changed the conversation that you're having with your children at this time?

MELISSA: I love that you brought this up because I think that this is of top of mind for parents just in general in terms of educating their kids. And a lot of what we learn in terms of money comes from what we observed in our childhood. And so I was really concerned about teaching my kids the wrong message during this time. I'm afraid that Jet will get up a sort of scarcity mentality right now because all of a sudden he has to eat his bread crust, even though he's never eaten bread crusts before. Because, you know, we can't waste things right now. And when I was a little girl, you know, my parents were immigrants. That was what I took away was that money was something that you had to just hoard and save, because it was finite, and you had to work so hard for it. And I think as I grew up, that really hurt me. You know, obviously, the frugality is great in some places, but as a businesswoman, you need to risk and be creative and invest. And so I've been just trying to have more conversations with my kids about, well, this is a situation right now. And we need to save some more of our money. But at the same time, this is also an opportunity for us to be generous. So I've been doing a lot of activities around charity and showing him that charity is not just about money, but also resources and time. And so writing letters to seniors in retirement facilities, we've been doing that as an activity. And trade-offs. We're saving a little bit money because we're not in swim classes. We're not in hockey. And I talked to him about it. I say, Well, what do you want to do with this money afterwards, you want to go see Popo and Gung Gung in Winnipeg? We can pay for an airfare. I tell him that we also need to save money for the future. I wish I could explain to him the great bang for his buck that he'll get if we put money in an RSP and get that grant from the government. But not just yet. So we just sort of talk about future goals that we have as a family.

ROMA: I'm happy that you brought up RESPs, I did want to touch on that. Why is it important to open those up early and start contributing to that right from the start, if you can?

MELISSA: So the day after my sons were born, I made sure that I had walked through the process of applying for their birth certificate and SIN number ahead of time so that I could get that to open an RESP. That was my number one thing, because I knew I would be getting a bunch of money from family and friends through our showers and whatnot. And I wanted that money to go somewhere really valuable. And I knew that that was, for me the most valuable thing. My grandfather was a university teacher in China. And he went to great lengths to continue teaching through the Second World War. And it was, his dream was to come to Canada and for his children to be educated, they made tremendous, tremendous sacrifices. So it is ingrained in me that I want to help my children afford the monstrous costs of post-secondary education. Regardless of what it is, regardless, if you want to go to community college, regardless, if you want to learn a trade, I want to help you so that you can get your best foot forward because I do know from talking to a lot of young people, that the debt follows them into their career. If I can give my kids a leg up, then the best way to do so is to open an RESP because the government essentially will give me free money. You know, 20% up to $500 a year based on how much money I put in to this account. So I think, free money what? Sitting there, tax-free growing? Yes. Bring it on. Nowhere else am I going to get a 20% return on the thing that I so value for my kids.

ROMA: Absolutely. And the amount’s not crippling. $2500 a year is it’s not nothing but it’s also, it’s a reasonable amount. I think having your first child, becoming a family in terms of, you know, having a baby, that’s when it’s really more important than ever to have a will. Talk me through that.

MELISSA: So I didn't have a will until my first child was born. That was definitely when I thought, Oh, I need to make sure that I have a will so that my wishes are properly carried out in terms of even caregivers, who his caregiver would be, how I would like my money to be used and when he would get it. Would he get it at 18? Will he get it in increments, will he get it all at 31? So I think people think oh, well it's a lot of money. I have to hire a lawyer and yes, you can hire an estate lawyer. The range in price can be maybe an average of $1000 depending on how complicated your situation is. But there are a lot of online companies that help you create a will online for yourself, if hiring a lawyer is outside of your budget, but it is something that I think, especially during these times when we've all become a little bit more aware of our mortality, I think it's a great thing to add to the to-do list right now, now that we are focused on our families.

ROMA: So one of the things we have seen during the pandemic has been an increase in the number of people creating and updating wills with older people and also new parents. So it's not uncommon. My understanding is that's when a lot of people get their first will is right around that time. One of the beautiful elements of this time for us as a family is that once the workday is over, provided, it's one of those days where we've set an end time for it and that's feasible is that we're doing a lot of things that we wouldn't normally do because three days a week we're racing To drive them to soccer. Now we're all going for a walk. And you know if you're lucky enough to be in one of those families where two people are working or if you're in a family where one of the incomes is gone, there's a really nice way, I think, to also handle that with your kids by showing them that there are pockets of joy still within that and that you don't necessarily need to spend money to do things that are wonderful and beautiful.

MELISSA: I think that is so important.

ROMA: Sounds great. Listen, thanks for joining us, Melissa. I think that was great conversation. I really enjoyed it.

MELISSA: Thank you so much Roma.

ROMA: That was Melissa Leong. And if you want more of her story, she's the author of Happy Go Money: Spend Smart, Save Right and Enjoy Life. Now, I'm going to give you my three takeaways on the cost of having kids.

One: Daycare is a huge household expense. It's a financial slog, but it is temporary. Try to avoid debt and when it ends, reroute those daycare dollars to any saving goals you might have neglected.

Two: Open an RESP as soon as your child is born. Instead of buying presents as grandparents or family members to contribute to your child's future education. Three: The cost of kids never disappears. The daycare years are the hardest, but they are replaced by other costs, like activities and camps, iPhones and car insurance. Your kids will influence your finances from when they are in diapers to when they leave home for school and beyond. But more on that in our next episode. It's our last of the season and it's all about young adults moving back home with their parents to save money. Would you do it? Make sure to listen.

LUCA: Thank you for listening to Stress Test. This show is produced by Hannah Sung. Editing and mixing by TK Matunda. Executive producer is Kiran Rana. My name is Luca.

ROMA: Thank you to Amy in Hamilton and to her family and thank you to Melissa Leong. If you like what you heard, let the world know. Leave us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts.

ROB: And if you know someone who wants to figure out how to stay on top of their finances when they have kids, send them this show. Our next episode is the last one of the season. It’s all about what it’s like to move back in with your parents to save money. Should you do it? Make sure you subscribe. You can find Stress Test in Apple Podcasts, Google Play, Spotify or your favorite podcast app. You can find us at The Globe and Mail where we cover all things financial.

LUCA: Thank you for listening.

ROMA: Really nice job, Lu! You're a natural.

LUCA: I said I was good at reading.


🎧 Catch up on Stress Test: How to survive the gig economyHow to get out of debtIs now the right time to buy a house?Crisis-proof your financesDoes investing change during a pandemic?Can you afford city life?

Listen and subscribe on iTunes or Spotify

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