A woman's power

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• 1st exchange: A woman's power
• 2nd exchange: The perils of feminist angst
• 3rd exchange: The trouble with marriage
• 4th exchange: Are we really getting behind the veil?
• 5th exchange: Can a million women achieve what the military hasn't?
• Final exchange: 42 countries wanting to implement 42 plans

Sarah Hampson, Globe columnist: Hi Sally. I know that you have reported extensively on the plight of women in Afghanistan, so I am pleased to be corresponding with you on this subject. I have never been to Afghanistan. I have only read the stories; seen the videos; imagined the terror. My expertise on the matter is a pedestrian one - as an average Canadian citizen, as a woman, a mother, a daughter.

When I watch the videos of these women on The Globe's website, I am struck by the fear. And I mean by that, not just the fear that the women themselves feel for their security, which is so troubling, but the fear, generally, about female sexuality. To see them hidden inside their burkas, behind their veils, holding, in some cases, their scarves up over their faces, I cannot help but think about the power of femininity - and why men feel that it is so important to control it, somehow. What is the power? Because of their beauty?

Certainly, looking at the women's eyes, especially those of the 15-year-old Sitara - how expressive and luminous they are - one gets a suggestion about the women's grace and mystery. (And that, ironically, is a comment on how the shrouding of sexuality often only serves to emphasize it - the covering of it acknowledges its power and fuels the imagination.) Is the power because woman can tempt men, provoke irrational response in them, diminish them somehow ? Is that what men fear? I know that this is part of the discussion in all fundamentalist religion.

I once interviewed a popular Christian singer in the States, a beautiful girl, who talked earnestly to me about how carefully she thinks about what to wear - show no cleavage, forget short skirts, tank tops, that sort of thing - because she understood that men are compromised by their visual attraction to women. It's not their fault, she insisted. It's just the way men, poor fellows, are wired. And women must protect men from their baser instincts by not flaunting their sexuality, she suggested. I always find this a bit funny, to be honest. I mean, hey, when Eve offered Adam the apple, he had the chance to say, "Listen, thanks a lot, Eve, for the offer, very nice and all, but no."

I wonder though if the power is also because women have the ability to have children, give life. Men, no matter how significant their accomplishments, no matter how smart they are and educated, will never know the stunning intelligence of the body that every mother has come to understand. I remember thinking, when I was pregnant with each of my three children, what a marvel my body was. I could be doing something simple - like putting together a few sentences - while it, meanwhile, was busy creating another life. I was making paragraphs. It was knitting together a brain. Pretty impressive.

This discussion about female power - which many women, even those of us in Western society, may not even be aware of - seems to be part of what is at play when I look at these frightened Afghan women.

Sally Armstrong, journalist: Hello Sarah. Your very interesting e-mail reminds me that there are as many opinions about emancipation as there are incidents around the women and girls of Afghanistan. In much of the world there is a bizarre duality that says women on the one hand are fragile creatures that need to be protected and on the other hand evil jezebels that society needs to be protected from. But I'm with you: Adam could have said, "No thanks."

As you know I spent time in Afghanistan during the Taliban regime and interviewed women in Kandahar at length several times during those years. The stunning piece of the story for me was and still is the centuries old impunity bestowed upon men who usurp women and girls as property and impeach them for their own sexual indiscretions. In Afghanistan, women are held responsible for a man's lack of sexual control. That simply has to change and it's the women - women like Rangina Hamida in this series - who are trying to turn this Titanic around.

Mind you, after a dozen years reporting from Afghanistan, I don't feel as discouraged as others about the recent events (although I sometimes think pessimism is in an Afghan's DNA). Change invariably takes a two-steps-forward, one-step-backwards path. Look at what happened here in Canada when women began asking for equality. Remember the first time wife assault was raised in the House of Commons in 1982, the members of parliament laughed. As for the Shiite law for women in Afghanistan, marital rape was legal in Canada until 1983. It takes time to change society. We've been at it since the Sixties; we aren't at the finish line yet.

The first book I wrote about Afghan women was called Veiled Threat; I wanted to know what the men were so scared of, what made them think the women had to be veiled, hidden, kept out of public view. The answer came in a variety of unquestioned ancient tribal customs that have clung on like mould and kept the country backward. I once asked Louise Arbour why men seem to fear the power of women and her response was similar to the suggestion you made. She said, "Women give birth. In a very immediate way we are immensely powerful."

I don't think the women in Afghanistan are as frightened as you think. I think they're frustrated with the lack of promised progress and naturally worried about their security. But behind those veils are feisty women who know that others don't live like this.

Sarah: I can imagine that when you are on the ground in Afghanistan, face to face with these women (or rather, face to veil) that you would get a greater sense of how frightened they really are, and how fiesty. I see the strength in these women - but only in some, to be frank. In some cases, I found myself wondering how much of our help do they really want or do they really benefit from. I know there is much discussion about whether we are superimposing our Western ideals onto another - more retro - society, and I am in accordance with the general view on this; that the struggles women face here are a humanitarian issue, not just about gender roles. Still, the women in these videos are worried about their security. They are afraid with the international troops there, stirring up violence. I found Suhaila, the 39-year-old mother of five who works in Ministry of Women's Affairs, to be most compelling. "Safety is everything," she says. And when the troops are there, something is bound to happen; innocent people get killed. Women don't want to leave their houses.

She is an example of how women can progress there, when they are educated, literate - and perhaps most tellingly - when they are lucky enough to be married into a family that is open-minded and to a husband who is also educated. That's one of the missing pieces for me in all of this. Yes, I get it that the patriarchy is often happy with the status quo - why change something that offers such an advantage? But I think we run the risk of tarring all men with the same "feminist" brush when we imply that they all want to abuse their wives and not allow them to work. Suhaila spoke to this if only in the way she smiles softly when asked about her marriage. It is "very good," she said. Her family life is "positive." She does have that "disease to please" - a phrase that Jane Fonda used over and over again in conversation with me when she talked about her autobiography and her own behaviour in her marriages (and other romantic relationships) to strong, often difficult, men. She had been brought up in a patriarchal family, she argued, and had gone on to be attracted to controlling men.

Suhaila says of her marriage, "I really wanted everyone to be happy with me." So, subjugation of self to the pleasure and needs of others is there in her life. But she has found her way. She has a job. She knows the importance of education. And why? Well, partly, I imagine, because she has a kind husband, who also sees that it is important to have a peaceful, happy home life. "They will abolish abuse themselves," she says of some husbands and wives. I wonder about Afghan men, the average ones. The women may be behind the veil. But aren't the men, some of them anyway, sometimes stuck behind the impenetrable wall of our own prejudices and assumptions as Western women? Not all men, even with the comfort of the patriarchy behind them, want to abuse their women and see them unhappy. How much fun is that? Don't some of them see the value in sharing a life with a lively woman, such as Suhaila, who appears to love her life? Education, literacy - these are important for women. But for men, too, no?

Sally: I'm beginning to find the "blame the West" argument tiresome. First, the West is blamed whenever women ask for the human rights that are guaranteed in the constitution of Afghanistan. This works very effectively for the fundamentalists (Taliban, extremists, weekend warriors, thugs) because if we criticize, they reply, "This is our culture, our religion and none of your business." In fact the fundamentalists have hijacked the culture and the religion for political opportunism and they're getting away with it because the international community is too politically correct to say anything lest it be interpreted as being culturally insensitive. What the fundamentalists are passing off as culture and religion is not what the Afghan people are familiar with.

The interview that catches me is the one with Sitara, the child bride. I feel her story is a sample of the change in the country. Girls like Sitara were more likely to accept their lot in life prior to the last decade (albeit a decade of violence). Now they rail against the injustice and even have the courage to voice their opinions. I remember being in a literacy training class soon after the Taliban were ousted from government. I noticed the women all refer to their illiteracy as being blind. I asked why they used that reference and one replied, "I couldn't read so I couldn't see what was going on." In fewer than a dozen words, she described the problem: keep them ignorant so no one knows what's going on. The women know now. And that's what's crushing the hopes of Sitara. She saw her chance for emancipation in going to school and now it's been snatched away. She doesn't sound frightened to me. She sounds as though she's stuck with the sins of the fathers so to speak and is hugely disappointed that her escape hatch has been nailed shut for now.

The second "blame the West" item is the security issue. The former Afghan member of parliament Malalai Joya went around the world saying, "Get the troops out of my country." And in the next breath saying, "If you leave we'll have civil war by the end of the day." The old adage "war is hell" is still true. Where there are guns, there are casualties. But without security, you can't do anything else. You can't run a hospital or a school or a judiciary. You know Sarah, the perception of fear in Afghanistan today is greater than the actual need for fear. After all, you see people on the street going to school, going to work, hanging around at kebab stands, playing in the parks. Terrorism works because by setting off one suicide bomb, you paralyse an entire region with fear. And that perception of fear leads to the perception of failure.

Although it's fair to say Kandahar is the worst example of progress in the country, even here in the midst of the insurgency, the girls who had acid thrown in their faces for going to school returned to their classes in a matter of days.

Sarah: I am not falling into the "blame the West" camp of thinking on this. I understand it well, and I see how nicely it plays into the hands of the Taliban and other extremists. As I say, I can see that the struggle of women In Afghanistan is a humanitarian issue. We both know how women (the happy, productive ones) are an integral part of any country's economy and well-being. (Microfinance stories involving women in African and other third world countries point to that.) And as many of the women in these interviews say, women are human beings, too. They know that hope is being snatched away. Which is deeply unfair.

I, like you, feel great empathy for the young women in these stories who see the benefits of education and yet are unsure what their future holds. The fear I see in them is what comes with war, and as you say, with terrorism, which is designed to prevent people from exercising their freedom. But knowing that doesn't remove the feeling of despair I often feel when reading these stories that give me a glimpse into the complexity of the issues there; despair over whether we will be able to make a positive difference with the presence of our troops.

Shall we continue this conversation tomorrow?

Sally: Good idea. There are more stories to talk about as this fascinating series on the women continues.

Read the next day's exchange

• Although known primarily as a profile writer, the Globe and Mail's Sarah Hampson has an interest in many topics. She has covered business stories about female ambition, the appeal of late-night browsing on the Shopping Channel, the mating and feeding habits of Bay Street denizens and the retail magic of Holt Renfrew. She has reflected on her life as a mother of three boys. She has trekked across the Arctic lowlands of Devon Island, the world's largest uninhabited island, for a travel memoir and ventured into the wrong Chicago 'hood with basketball legend, Isiah Thomas. Since 2007, she has written Generation Ex, a column in The Globe about the social phenomenon of divorce. She also writes Currency, a weekly column about the way we spend money. Her book about mid-life post-divorce, A Place to Land, will be published by Knopf in the spring, 2010.
• Sally Armstrong is an author and journalist. She has covered conflict zones all over the world, from Bosnia and Somalia to Rwanda and Afghanistan. Her documentary works include They Fell From the Sky, and The Daughters of Afghanistan. She is the author of three books: Veiled Threat: The Hidden Power of the Women of Afghanistan, The Nine Lives of Charlotte Taylor and the recently released Bitter Roots, Tender Shoots: The Uncertain Fate of Afghanistan's Women.