Smart cities attract smart people, who in turn create smart companies. Done right, the process feeds a virtuous circle – more cool jobs, more creative people – and the next thing you know you have an Austin, Tex., or a Silicon Valley, centres where cash and creativity abound. But how do you kick-start it all? There was a time when landing a big factory, or failing that, a call centre, was seen as the catalyst to economic growth. It started with big subsidies and ended with zoning amendments. That view has given way to one that champions cafes and ballets, and preferably, a ski hill nearby.
Kevin Stolarick, research director of the Martin Prosperity Institute at the University of Toronto's Rotman School of Management, says you need all of the above. Whether the industry of choice is IT, fine arts or life sciences, building a cluster from scratch is very difficult, Dr. Stolarick warns.
"I always say the hardest thing in the world is to attract the first immigrant to your community, and the easiest thing is to attract the second one," he says. "And the same is true for these industries. If you have the first one, that's fabulous, and if you have some already, there's something you can do with it."
For Dr. Stolarick and his colleagues at the institute, which studies the role of location and city regions in economic prosperity, this is well-worn territory. (Director Richard Florida wrote the 2002 bestseller The Rise of the Creative Class.) But understanding the many factors that made a place like Austin a magnet for creative types is tricky, Dr. Stolarick says. "Even looking back, it's hard to figure out what all of those conditions were and how things happened."
Earlier, Dr. Stolarick made a valiant try, helping us get a better understanding of how some centres of ingenuity were established, and how we can help create them today.
With files from Nick Rockel.
The following is a transcript of the conversation:
12:46
nhulsman - Hi I'm Noel Hulsman, I'll be hosting the discussion today with Kevin Stolarick. We will begin in 10 minutes. Feel free to send in your questions now. Thanks.
12:54 [Comment From Kevin Stolarick]
Signed in
12:57 nhulsman - Kevin, thanks for joining us today. We appreciate your time. I've got a number of questions to ask, but will defer to the readers first. We'll start with a question about Toronto from George Ennis
12:57 [Comment From George Ennis ]
How would you rate Toronto's performance in attracting the "cool jobs" relative to other cities globally, in Noth America and Canada.? What is that Toronto is doing right, what does it need to do better and what is it doing wrong? Finally what role have more senior levels of government played in the success of the cities winning the race to attracting creative people, jobs and industries?
12:57 [Comment From Kevin Stolarick]
Thanks for such an easy first question! :)
12:58 [Comment From Kevin Stolarick]
The biggest advantage that TO has now is its diversity. Not just the immigrant populations, but its across-the-board diversity (perfect a couple of days after Gay Pride).
1:00 [Comment From Kevin Stolarick]
Trying to figure out what to improve has been keeping my sleepless for the four years that I've been here. I don't think there is a single thing that needs to be fixed, changed or improved -- mostly I think Toronto needs to believe in itself more (OK -- this is the 'huckster' from the US saying this).
1:00
nhulsman - From a competitive advantage perspective, is diversity enough? Vancouver and Montreal are also diverse, to say nothing of New York, San Francisco, L.A, etc
1:01 [Comment From Kevin Stolarick]
The biggest way to attract people to your city is to have residents who believe in it, love it, and can't wait to share that love.
1:02 [Comment From Kevin Stolarick]
No, diversity is not enough. You also need Technology/jobs and talented skilled people (already there and attracted). And, attracting people means amenities (talking about transit could keep us busy for hours).
1:03 [Comment From Ian Brown ]
Hi Kevin. Once a city or region attracts lucrative trade, what steps or initiatives need to be undertaken to ensure the community doesn't back-peddle. I.e. drug and crime problems in Alberta's oil sand regions. It seems many of these places take one step forward, and two steps back.
1:06 [Comment From Kevin Stolarick]
Success brings its own challenges. The trick is to be mindful that your are successful and keep an eye out for possible downsides. There are lots of places that wish they had the kinds of 'problems' the oilsands have -- what city in the Maritimes would give their left arm for a little growth? It's when you are successful that you have the opportunity to make things better and not just rest on your prior success. The 'virtuous circle' starts by turning success into more.
1:06 [Comment From Kent Chin ]
In many of the "livability" scores, Toronto usually rates well, but loses points on climate/weather. Case in point, the year is half over and we've had about...10 nice days. Your thoughts on weather as a detractor?
1:09 [Comment From Kevin Stolarick]
It's not as important as many people seem to think. Look at places like London, Boston, New York, Minneapolis -- all thriving and doing very well -- yet, not really any better weather-wise than Toronto. And, weather which was the key growth support for Phoenix and Florida has left those cities in a 'bit of a pickle'. The key with climate is to be truthful about what you have, which in Toronto's case is actually letting people know that it's not the same as in White Horse....
1:10 [Comment From David McLaren ]
I live in a rural area. The closest 'city' is Owen Sound where there is some light industry. The predominant economic driver in the area is farm-based. Have you done any thinking about developing creative economies in rural areas? Do you have any good references for further study for those of us in rural centres?
1:13 [Comment From Kevin Stolarick]
Lots of work. And, doing more right now. First, look at what the Monieson Centre has been doing at Queens University. Second, on our website ( www.martinprosperity.org ), we have a great paper by Betsy Donald "From Kraft to Craft" that talks about Ontario's agricultural industry and how creativity is really the driver of success. We are currently working on a report for the Economic Development Council of Ontario that is specifically looking at 5 "small city/rural" areas in different parts of Ontario. That report will be release in the next few months.
1:14 nhulsman - This next question may be too close to the last, but would welcome additional insights if you had them
1:15 [Comment From Karl ]
I'm curious if there are examples of business incubators that are flourishing in small centres (less than 50,000 people) that are not driven by provincial (state) or federal money?
1:15 [Comment From Karl ]
Further to my previous question. I live in the Comox Valley. I'm 25 minutes from Mt. Washington (which had 7m of snow last year), 5 min from a river that has a 20ft waterfall you can jump off of, you can catch 15lb salmon in the same river in the fall, I'm 5 min from the beach, 2 1/2 hours to Tofino for surfing, there are direct flights to Edmonton, Calgary & Vancouver. This seems to be the ideal place for a "creative class". Your thoughts?
1:21 [Comment From Guest ]
'Creative' is a very polarizing label, many do not feel they are creative in the sense that society tends to use it, ie. designers, musicians, artists. Yet, those who believe in the creative economy or design thinking know how important these other players are. What are some of the key methods by which a we can achieve buy-in from a community at large, particularly when we are shifting from traditional economies (Ag, old industrial)
1:21 [Comment From Kevin Stolarick ]
Definitely for some, but not for all. Many people still want big cites and the amenites and advantages that they see in metropolises. The key is to find and reach out to those 'creative' workers who are much more interested and drawn to recreational opportunities AND having the infrastructure and exsiting clusters of jobs, clients, and economic opportunites that moving to such a setting would be beneficial to them. Many people love the quality of life you can get in such a place, but they still have to be able to do business there. If given the choice, entreprneurs will start new businesses in such locations and small company owners will move their businesses, but they have to see that they can "make a go of it".
1:22 nhulsman - This next one comes from my corner of the country, so need to get this one in...
1:22 [Comment From Monctonian ]
I live in Moncton, N.B., arguably one of the better-performing cities in Atlantic Canada, but yet still lagging behind much of the rest of Canada. Here, we are seeing significant issues with underemployment: university graduates taking positions that could easily be done without any post-secondary education at all. Indeed, one corporate recruiter told me to take my grad school education off my resume so that "it would be easier to get an entry level job." How does the issue of underemployment jive with strategies of luring the creative class?
1:24 [Comment From Kevin Stolarick ]
Every single person has the potential to be creative. And, unless we are able to tap that creativity we are going to consign ourselves to real trouble. Getting buy in is getting people to take the time to understand what we mean when we say 'creative' and what the real implications are. The problem isn't with the term -- it's getting people understand the full message. And, we'd have that same problem no matter what word we used...
1:24 [Comment From Kevin Stolarick ]
On to Moncton...
1:29 Kevin Stolarick - What we've been finding is that employment and future employment and 'creative' unemployment is much more based on skills than education levels. Thinking and relational (what we've called social intelligence) skills are the most important, growing, and most rewarded skills. The Bachelor's degree around the developed world is becoming less valued. Underemployment is from having either the wrong kinds of talen pool -- or the wrong kinds of jobs. A big part of the solution may be learning how to sucessful leverage the talented, skilled workforce to attract better companies/jobs to the region.
1:29 [Comment From Guest ]
is there a role for government and universities in creating a cluster? what is this role?
1:33 Kevin Stolarick - Yes, but I would say it is limited. Sucessful clusters have to form naturally and can then be nurtured by govts and univs. And, both may play a part in the natural formation of the cluster in the first place -- especially univs. However, niether has been effective in forcing a cluster to exist that wasn't there already. the best role should be that of gardener -- tending the young shoots and supporting them and not over-watering or over-fertilizing.
1:33 [Comment From Marcus Williams ]
Hi Kevin. Earlier this year This American Life aired an episode called "How to Create a Job" (#435), which described the games that regional economic development corporations play in attracting jobs. My overall impression was that of a zero-sum-game / race-to-the-bottom situation. Did you catch that episode, and if so, to what extent do you agree with their characterization of the problem?
1:37 Kevin Stolarick - I remember seeing some coverage and/or listening to part of it. I think we actually talked with them while they were working on it. I would agree that for the most part current economic development is a 'race to the bottom/zero-sum game' kind of approach. I think that part of the real strength of what we have done by adding a focus on talent, creativity, and the role of diversity and amenities is shown how it doesn't have to be 'zero-sum' -- how you can by focusing on your region's real strength's and pusing creativity and innovation as hard as you possibily can and then pushing even harder -- you end up with increasing the size of the whole pie and not just increasing a single region's slice.
1:38 nhulsman - I'd like to bring George Ennis back in, as he's followed up, and I think it's a topic of interest for a lot of people here...
1:38 [Comment From George Ennis ]
Not sure if you really answered my 'easy question" . So let me restate it. What is the competitive advantage that Toronto has if any over cities such as Montreal, New York, Chicago, Boston. They all have diverse populations and some might argue they have better schools colleges and universities to act as a magnet. (Not trying to bait someone employed at UofT.)
1:43 Kevin Stolarick - I'm not sure Toronto currenlty has an actual advantage over at least three of the four cities you mentioned (I'll let you decide which 3). If you look at the overall performance of those cities, you will see that, they are outperforming Toronto on average income growth (a way better measure of regional success and prosperity than simply looking at population growth). I love Toronto. It's the city I most want to live in (and not just because I have a job at the U of T). And, while I think Toronto has much in it's favour -- and much to offer relative to many, many other cities around the world, in the US, and in Canada, I don't believe that Toronto is on par with a city like Boston or New York. I think it could be. But, I alos think that Toronto (at least the voting population) needs to decide that it wants to be a 'world-class' city and is willing to take action to make it happen.
1:44 [Comment From Mike ]
Kevin, to follow up on Marcus' comment, do you believe offering big incentives, such as the government of Ontario did for Ubisoft, to attract creative industries such as video games, is the right way to at least begin to create a critical mass?
1:47 Kevin Stolarick - It's the 'table stakes'. Unfortunately, everyone is doing it so if you don't do it too, you won't get anyone to move to your region. The key (and all due 'props' to the Govt of Ontario for doing this right) is to make sure that you don't just spend all your money in one place and then don't do anything to really build the cluster. The whole 'Digital Media' focus of Ontario takes not only the Ubisoft investment, but also the other strengths (cell phone apps, wireless, other gaming developers) and leverages it to try and build something that has a good chance of being a world-leading cluster in gaming and related.
1:48 [Comment From Carly ]
What strategies and actions do you think that Toronto would need to put in place to close the gap between itself and the cities you mentioned?
1:52 Kevin Stolarick - I think this is more of a PhD dissertation than a simple answer to really get at everything. However, some quick hits: be/think/act REGIONALLY, leverage art and culture way more than we do currently, learn how to use tourism to create foreign direct investment, get our 1970's transit system running and covering the Toronto of 2035, which is what we need to be starting now, stop being afraid to tout and sell the things we do incredibly well, work with the federal government to get immigrant credentialing more deftly handled, etc. etc. etc.
1:53 nhulsman - I fear we have a few more questions that potentially fall into the same category, and we're now up against the clock. Let me submit the next two, and if you can sum up with some closing thoughts, it would be most appreciated
1:53 [Comment From Cameron ]
Let's move the focus away from Toronto for a second and look at the Maritimes. Halifax in particular. Here we have a great liveable city with a ton of universities and a large student population. What do you think the city is not doing and needs to do to build upon what one would consider a huge advantage?
1:53 [Comment From David McLaren ]
Thank you for your reference for Donald's report 'From Kraft to Craft'. I checked it out and while it does a nice job of linking creativity to food production, it doesn't really help in thinking about other aspects of creative economies in rural areas -- which are often refuges for colonies of talented artists. Just how does one harness that pool of creativity to pull a rural economy?
1:59 Kevin Stolarick - If I could answer those questions with a combined answer, I wouldn't need to keep doing research on this stuff! I will say that what I think is really the underlying question is: How do we tap the creative talent that we have? How do we best leverage what we already have going for us to make things better in the future?
The one thing I've learned in doing this for the past decade plus is that you have the start by really understanding what you do have -- what are the strenghts and weaknesses -- what's working -- what isn't. Then, you can try and figure out what do to next. I often say this 'needs a shotgun and not a rifle' -- it takes a hundred different little solutions rather than a single 'silver bullet' to solve these kinds of questions. It means trying lots of little things -- letting the thousand flowers bloom. And, working to expand and nurture what is working -- what is proven to be working even if only a small example. In the end, the best solution is YOURS -- not something that some other region has done.
2:02 nhulsman - Kevin, that's a great note to close with. Will end with one final comment, if applicable, and that comes from a reader who suggests you should use this opportunity to promote your Twitter ID. Clearly a following awaits. Will leave this open for a few more minutes, if you'd like to do that. Until then, thank you very much for your time and insights. They're most appreciated.
2:03 Kevin Stolarick - @stolarick
thanx
2:04 Kevin Stolarick - also @MartinProsperIT
2:05 nhulsman - Cheers