Prime Minister Justin Trudeau testifies before the commission on foreign interference in elections and democratic institutions in Ottawa on April 10, 2024.ASHLEY FRASER/Getty Images
The latest on the foreign-interference inquiry in Canada
Foreign interference has dominated the headlines since The Globe first reported details of China's sophisticated strategy to disrupt Canada's democracy in February, 2023. The long-awaited public inquiry on the issue launched in September, 2023.
Public hearings have already heard testimonies from diaspora groups, election officials and politicians targeted by China.
Today, the commission heard from Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, along with cabinet ministers Bill Blair, Karina Gould and Dominic LeBlanc.
- A look at what happened last week at the foreign-interference inquiry
- A guide to foreign interference and China’s suspected influence in Canada
- A timeline of events that led to the public inquiry into foreign interference
- Podcast: What you need to know about the foreign-interference inquiry
Find live updates from our senior parliamentary reporter Steven Chase, reporting from Ottawa.
Watch the recording of Wednesday’s hearings
6:57 p.m.
Justin Trudeau’s testimony has ended
That’s a wrap. Mr. Trudeau has finished testifying at the foreign-interference inquiry’s Phase 1 hearings.Watch his portion of the hearings below:
6:51 p.m.
Conservative Party affected by pro-Kremlin narrative, Trudeau tells inquiry
Mr. Trudeau tells the inquiry that Pierre Poilievre’s Conservative Party has fallen prey to pro-Kremlin narratives and that explained why they voted against legislation underpinning the updated Canada-Ukraine free-trade deal..
6:25 p.m.
Trudeau believes reporting about phone conversation was false
Mr. Trudeau is also asked about former special rapporteur David Johnston’s conclusion that the reporting on an alleged 2021 conversation between Han Dong and Chinese consul-general Han Tao was false. Mr. Trudeau concurs he believes the reporting was false.
Mr. Dong’s lawyer asks Mr. Trudeau whether the PMO discussed how to address that reporting. Mr. Trudeau says that is why they engaged Mr. Johnston to investigate.
6:22 p.m.
Trudeau voices doubt about CSIS account of Han Dong phone call about Two Michaels
Mr. Trudeau is asked about MP Han Dong’s 2021 call with then-Toronto consul-general Han Tao about the incarceration of Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor. The Prime Minister voices doubt about CSIS’s account of this, saying “there is a lot of uncertainty” around the spy agency’s account of the intercepted conversation.
5:53 p.m.
Trudeau says suspicion of irregularities in process not enough to overturn result
Mr. Trudeau is asked about Johnston-report comments on the 2019 Liberal nomination race in Don Valley North that noted “well-grounded suspicion that the irregularities were tied to the PRC consulate in Toronto.”
Mr. Trudeau replies that by itself, that is “not itself enough to overturn a democratic event.”
5:17 p.m.
Trudeau, chief of staff differ in intelligence briefing remarks
Prime Minister Justin Trudeau takes part in public hearings at the foreign interference inquiry in Ottawa on April 10, 2024.Blair Gable/Reuters
Does Mr. Trudeau read intelligence briefs? Contrast what the Prime Minister told the inquiry today and what chief of staff Katie Telford told MPs nearly one year ago.
Last year, Ms. Telford told MPs on April 14, “of course the Prime Minister reads any documents he receives.”
Mr. Trudeau said today he mostly relies on oral briefings instead of the documents he receives. “He reads them when he can. If he is not able to read the document, he trusts that someone else, specifically the National Security and Intelligence Advisor (”NSIA”), will tell him if there is something important that he needs to know.”
4:58 p.m.
Elections in 2019 and 2022 ‘decided by Canadians’: Trudeau
“Those elections held in their integrity – they were decided by Canadians,” Mr. Trudeau tells inquiry of 2019 and 2022 ballots.
4:57 p.m.
Trudeau is asked about complaints of defeated Conservative candidate
Mr. Trudeau is asked about defeated Conservative MP Kenny Chiu – a target of disinformation – complaining about Ottawa’s perceived lack of action about his case.
“It’s as if you were drowning while they watched and the best they could do is to let you know you were drowning,” Mr. Chiu told the inquiry recently.
4:45 p.m.
‘Bragging is not doing’
The Prime Minister says when it comes to foreign interference, foreign diplomats might boast to their superiors about something that occurred in Canada but that doesn’t mean they were responsible for what transpired. “Bragging is not doing.”(He spoke in vague terms before relaying this adage.)
4:34 p.m.
Intelligence briefings can be compared to conversations, Trudeau tells inquiry
Mr. Trudeau tells the inquiry that intelligence briefings given to him are more like conversations rather than officials reading off all their talking points.
4:33 p.m.
Trudeau: Notes don’t always mean I was told everything
Mr. Trudeau is presented with September, 2022, briefing notes that caution “Canada has been slower than our Five Eyes allies to respond to the foreign interference threat with legislation and other initiatives...” He says notes don’t always mean he is told everything.
4:31 p.m.
Trudeau confirms he was briefed on election threats task force report
Mr. Trudeau is asked about the briefing given to Liberals by the election threats task force on Sept. 12, 2021.
(Everything from the document is redacted, so the public cannot read the contents of the briefing.)
The Prime Minister says he was briefed on the matter after the election, but he offers no details.
The commission will clearly not divulge the substance of the briefing at this hearing, so it’s a black box as far as the public is concerned.
4:23 p.m.
Trudeau believes China does not prefer one Canadian party
The Prime Minister says his view is that China does not favour one party in Canada over another.
4:21 p.m.
Trudeau: ‘No impediments prohibiting foreign nationals from voting’ in nomination contests
Also in the pre-hearing interview: Mr. Trudeau “observed that there are in fact no impediments prohibiting foreign nationals from voting in the [Liberal] nominations process: he explained that this is an intentional decision, to encourage wide participation in nomination races.”
Opinion: Busloads of international students show a weak spot in Canadian democracy
4:18 p.m.
Trudeau said ahead of hearing that turnover in adviser position has had no bearing on national security
An interesting question in the pre-hearing interview with Mr. Trudeau released today: “PM Trudeau indicated that he [did] not believe the high turnover rate in the NSIA [national security and intelligence adviser] position has affected his ability to stay informed on important intelligence issues.”
4:15 p.m.
Not sufficient evidence to overturn Han Dong’s nomination: Trudeau
The only action available to Mr. Trudeau as party leader would have been to overturn Han Dong’s nomination, he tells the inquiry.
He testifies that he felt there was not sufficient evidence for him to do this.
4:09 p.m.
How Trudeau received information on CSIS and the Don Valley North race
The Prime Minister is recounting how aide Jeremy Broadhurst told him in September, 2019, that CSIS was concerned China might have mobilized buses of students to vote for Han Dong.
4:07 p.m.
Trudeau asked about 2019 Don Valley North riding nomination race
Mr. Trudeau recalls how he first learned from an aide of alleged irregularities in the Liberal nomination race for Don Valley North in 2019: “Concerns that Chinese officials” were “developing plans to possibly engage in interference in the nomination contest…”
4:03 p.m.
Trudeau says he relies on in-person briefings
“The only way to guarantee to make sure that I receive the necessary information is to give me an in-person briefing, or over a secure line if necessary, on any issue or priority issue.” – Mr. Trudeau on how he consumes intelligence and how it’s incumbent on advisers to spell it out.
4:01 p.m.
Trudeau asked more about intelligence briefings
“She is the person I turn to get the answers I need,” Mr. Trudeau tells the inquiry of his national-security adviser. It appears that a key message from the Prime Minister today is: It’s up to my advisers to tell me what is important rather than written briefs.
3:55 p.m.
Trudeau’s pre-hearing remarks on intelligence briefings
A pre-hearing interview with Mr. Trudeau that was just released dealt with the subject of intelligence briefings:
“He reads them when he can. If he is not able to read the document, he trusts that someone else, specifically the National Security and Intelligence Advisor, will tell him if there is something important that he needs to know.”
3:45 p.m.
Trudeau explains concerns about Russian disinformation
The Prime Minister is recounting his early concern about Russian disinformation and how to respond to it, citing an account of how French officials were once forced to go public with warnings about how a breaking story was fake news spread by Moscow.
3:43 p.m.
Trudeau outlines national security situation at start of mandate
Mr. Trudeau tells inquiry that when he first took power, he wanted parliamentarians to have more oversight over national security and so he created NSICOP, a committee of MPs and senators.
(NSICOP, though, is not a committee of Parliament.)
3:39 p.m.
Trudeau gave interviews ahead of inquiry six weeks ago
Mr. Trudeau’s pre-interviews for this inquiry took place six weeks ago, exhibits tabled show.
3:30 p.m.
Justin Trudeau set to testify
Prime Minister Justin Trudeau will begin testifying shortly before the foreign-interference inquiry.
3:06 p.m.
Issue of alleged illegal Chinese government police stations is raised
Mr. LeBlanc is asked about alleged illegal Chinese government police stations operating in Montreal, but the inquiry’s counsel interrupts to question how this relates to scope of the commission’s mandate.
2:50 p.m.
Diaspora often targets of interference activity, says Mr. LeBlanc
Mr. LeBlanc tells the inquiry that diaspora communities in Canada are often the targets and victims of foreign-interference activity.
1:30 p.m.
Mr. Mendicino, public safety minister in early 2023, will not testify
It’s interesting that Justice Hogue called Karina Gould to testify, even though she is no longer the minister responsible for democratic institutions. (She is currently Government House Leader.)
But Justice Hogue didn’t call Marco Mendicino, who is no longer public safety minister but was the first minister really tasked with getting a handle on foreign interference. Mr. Mendicino was dropped from cabinet in July, 2023.
1:15 p.m.
Mr. LeBlanc was briefed on campaigns targeting Kenny Chiu and Erin O’Toole
Minister of Public Safety, Democratic Institutions and Intergovernmental Affairs Dominic LeBlanc appears as a witness during the Public Inquiry Into Foreign Interference in Ottawa, April 10, 2024.Sean Kilpatrick/The Canadian Press
Public Safety Minister Dominic LeBlanc told the foreign-interference inquiry he was given briefings in February and May, 2023, during which he was made aware of “disinformation campaigns targeting Mr. Kenny Chiu and Mr. Erin O’Toole,” according to a pre-hearing interview made public today.
He added he does not recall CSIS officials “ascribing an outcome or an impact to those campaigns.”
Mr. LeBlanc was named Public Safety Minister in July, 2023.
Mr. Chiu, a former Conservative MP, previously testified at the commission that he was defeated in the election because of a China-sponsored disinformation campaign.
12:50 p.m.
Dominic LeBlanc begins to testify
Public Safety Minister Dominic LeBlanc is now testifying at the Hogue inquiry on foreign interference.
12:05 p.m.
Mr. Blair did not see substantial evidence of Russian influence on election
Former public safety minister Bill Blair tells the inquiry he did not see “substantial evidence of Russian efforts to influence our elections through disinformation” in the 2019 and 2021 federal elections.
But he said he did see evidence of Russian efforts to influence public opinion outside elections.
12:00 p.m.
Delay in documents
As is habitual at the Hogue inquiry, there is a major delay before documents entered into exhibit at proceedings are provided to journalists. It’s been 15 minutes since Mr. Blair began testifying, and we still can’t read his pre-hearing interview.
Sometimes the delay lasts hours.
11:35 a.m.
Mr. Blair was briefed on Chinese meddling in Don Valley North Liberal nomination race
Former public safety minister Bill Blair tells foreign interference inquiry that after the 2019 election he was briefed on alleged Chinese meddling in the Don Valley North Liberal nomination race.
In his pre-hearing interview, also tabled today, he said he was not concerned because it was not firmly substantiated and the intelligence “did not suggest” that candidate Han Dong was aware of the irregularities or that the actual election in the riding had been compromised.
Karina Gould, who testified earlier, was not briefed on the same incident.
11:35 a.m.
Bill Blair begins to testify
Defence Minister Bill Blair is now testifying at the Hogue inquiry on foreign interference because of his past service as public safety minister. Canada’s spy agency, CSIS, reports to the minister of public safety.
10:35 a.m.
Ms. Gould disputes civil servants are not impartial
Ms. Gould is asked whether a federal election threats monitor would be more independent if it was staffed by people who could not be removed from office, instead of “at pleasure appointees,” such as senior public servants.
She disputes the suggestion that civil servants are not impartial.
10:15 a.m.
Ottawa expected threats from Russia
It’s pretty clear that in 2019 the government thought the biggest threat to elections would come from Russia.
But as we have read at least twice in inquiry witness interviews, the government has since been informed that “Russia did not have a lot of interest in Canada’s elections.”
It’s worth considering to what extent Ottawa erected lines of defence around the premise that the main interference threat would come from Russia. Then it came from China, according to CSIS.
10:15 a.m.
Publicizing interference could be seen as interference itself, Ms. Gould says
She says Ottawa making an announcement about foreign interference during an election could be seen as interference itself, so that’s why the threshold for telling the public is set so high.
Context: Ottawa has never alerted the public about foreign interference during an election.
Ms. Gould says she believes it is harder for foreign actors to interfere in Canadian elections if there is no fixed election date.
10:05 a.m.
After 2019 election, Ms. Gould was informed of low-level interference activities
Ms. Gould said in the pre-hearing interview that, after the 2019 election, she was informed “CSIS had observed low-level foreign interference activities by China, similar to what had been seen in the past.”
10:05 a.m.
Ms. Gould said in pre-interview that threshold for information sharing should be high
In the pre-hearing interview, just made public, Ms. Gould told the inquiry that “the threshold for informing the public of a threat to an election should be (and was designed to be) high. The moment a public announcement is made, not only could the election be put in question, but Canada’s democracy as a whole could also be put in question.”
In the lead-up to the 2019 federal election, Ms. Gould received security briefings by heads of agencies within the security and intelligence community on the cyber- and non-cyberthreat landscape. She would go to a SCIF (sensitive compartmented information facility) on Communications Security Establishment premises to receive this information.
She was not briefed on the Don Valley North Liberal nomination race allegations “during or after the election … neither was she made aware that secret cleared Liberal Party representatives were briefed in late September 2019 about the allegations of foreign interference by China in the Don Valley North nomination contest.”
She did not view that as unusual.
9:50 a.m.
Ms. Gould says there was a plan to protect Canada’s democracy before 2019
Liberal member of Parliament Karina Gould appears as a witness at the Public Inquiry Into Foreign Interference in Ottawa on Wednesday, April 10, 2024.Sean Kilpatrick/The Canadian Press
Ms. Gould tells the inquiry that the initial “plan to protect Canada’s democracy” was developed after attempts by Russia to interfere with democratic elections around the world.
The idea was to address situations like the “Obama dilemma,” in which then-President Barack Obama became aware that Russia was interfering in the 2016 U.S. presidential election but felt unable to publicly intervene because doing so would be viewed as a partisan act of interfering in the electoral process.
Some details come from a pre-hearing summary made public as she testifies.
9:40 a.m.
Karina Gould begins to testify
Karina Gould, who was minister of democratic institutions from Feb. 1, 2017, until Nov. 20, 2019, is up at the Hogue inquiry now. She is currently Government House Leader.
9:00 a.m.
A guide to foreign interference and China’s suspected influence in Canada
The public inquiry into foreign interference in Canadian elections, led by Quebec Court of Appeal Justice Marie-Josée Hogue, began public hearings in January. Prime Minister Justin Trudeau had resisted repeated calls for months, including three votes in the House of Commons, to set up a foreign-interference inquiry.
What is foreign interference and why is it important? What have we learned from CSIS documents, national-security sources and politicians about Chinese meddling in Canadian affairs? Here’s what you need to know
– Globe Staff
9:00 a.m.
A look at what happened in week one of the foreign-interference inquiry
During the first week of Canada’s inquiry into foreign interference, Justice Hogue heard testimony from Canadian diaspora groups, election officials and politicians targeted by China.
During the week of April 1-5, witnesses included Chief Electoral Officer Stéphane Perrault, Commissioner of Canada Elections Caroline Simard, former Conservative leader Erin O’Toole, Conservative foreign affairs critic Michael Chong, CSIS Director David Vigneault and MP Han Dong.
Here’s a summary of the first few days of the inquiry.
– Globe Staff
9:00 a.m.
A timeline of China’s alleged interference in recent Canadian elections
In February of 2023, The Globe and Mail reported details of China’s sophisticated strategy to disrupt Canada’s democracy in the 2021 federal election campaign, based on secret and top-secret CSIS documents.
How did China try to influence Canadian elections? Here’s a timeline of how the events have unfolded.
– Globe Staff
Steven Chase